Trolling The Forums
By SweetiePie
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I prefer my hubbing, blogging, twittering, and digging these days and really do not have a lot of time for the forums. Do not get me wrong, the HubPages forum is very mild compared to some, but there are still many things that happen there I really have no desire to read. The other day I realized I went five days without posting in the forum and I do not miss it, well I miss certain forums more than others. However, it is very disheartening when I see people making blatant personal attacks in forums. There is one person that implies Mexicans do not speak English and they need to assimilate in to the American culture. Never mind that this sounds like a racist rant from a 1930's propaganda film, but how out of touch with reality must this person be?! Yes this person is entitled to their opinion, but personally I am offended by personal attacks and childish slants. I am not trying to say there is a double standard in some cases, but yes there is a double standard in some cases.
A few weeks ago there was a hubber who is my friend that was asked to stop posting in the forums and yes I can see why because sometimes he was out of line, but there are others who continue to berate and badger each other every day without any recourse. I am not talking about every forum, but any forum about religion, politics, and other debatable subjects are pretty much impossible to read. However, I am now beginning to see offensive comments being made in mundane forums such as crafting, hobbies and the like. Yes there are a few trolls in the world that get their kicks off making offensive, outlandish, and down right ridiculous comments in the forums, but they need to be given warnings or disabled from posting if they continue their antics. I am not talking just about the forum here, I am talking about many other forums actually.
These days I focus on my hubbing, blogging, diggs, twitter, and myspace because I quite simply can live without many of the topics and slurs contained in forums. Yes overall HubPages does a good job of moderating the forum, but there are still a few individuals here that could learn to moderate themselves better. We are all adults and putting one another down is not flattering or humorous. It is almost like one big middle school note being passed around for the world to see. Grow up and cut out the personal attacks people because after ninth grade it is not cool to treat people like second class citizens. By the way, the majority of intelligent and savvy middle school kids think this type of behavior is just trolling. Unfortunately there are a few adult bullies who get their kicks out of acting out by putting other people down. This type of behavior will never go away completely, but I will not grace certain forums with my presence because of it.
Forum Update 2011
I have grown bored of most forums and almost never post on these anymore. Sometimes I post comments on articles via disqus.com, but beyond that I really do not get the point of using forums all that much. These can be useful, and I met some great people using forums on various websites, but now with Facebook I just do not see the point anymore. Facebook is much better for my social networking because I am able to add people I am interested in chatting with, and have online conversations about topics such as American politics without having to worry about the trolls coming along.
Comments
Good timing. I'm just beginning to visit the forums and I'm beginning to leave them at the same time. I have to admit that I shy a little away from confrontation, but the down right hatefullness I read made me sick to my stomach. I read one where a hubber came right out and called the other person stupid and to leave hubpages because they were too new and didn't "understand" how things worked. Another one where their beliefs were so degraded that I questioned whether or not we could have our own personal ones.
Thank you publishing this, I was feeling a little alone in all this.
Countrywomen,
I really do not like the typecasting either, but there seems to be a trend. Your positive way of handling it is gracious everywhere you go and it is a testiment to your good character.
RGraf,
I really get tired of how some tell people to leave hubpages because they do not "understand" how things work here. To me that is a little bit of a superiority trip on their part, but if they need to act like a bully on the forum to stroke their ego, then let them have it. You are certaintly not alone, I know I have been posting in the forum a lot less lately and I even hesitate to post when I do.
Rgraf- I totally agree with you. Can't we humbly ask questions when we don't know something? In the beginning I was OK in participating in hub forums but now I have come to the conclusion that it's not worth the effort when all that goes on is finding fault or criticizing others and their beliefs instead of learning anything new their. I guess some men like to engage in mental battles even when their is no need to attack each other unnecessarily.
Well said countrywomen :).
Yes, Countrywomen, you are so right! I don't have to agree with someone, but I can certainly respect them more when they are respectful of my different opinion or inexperience. I'm new to hubs and I'm downright scared to ask some questions due to the hostility I see. If I wanted that kind of hostility, I'd visit the in-laws :)
Just come here and ask RGraf and we can try to answer your questions. Let the trolls play :).
Nicely done SweetiePie, I think I clearly get what you say about the forums :)
SweetiePie, I really appreciate it. Thanks a million from this newbie :)
RGraf- I hope you are enjoying here. Yes I totally agree we can always disagree agreeably. Don't scare me(about the in-laws) I am planning to get married soon :-)
SweetiePie- I try not to lose my cool when people do that kind of thing. I guess men by nature are more aggressive and these forums maybe an extension. I never really understood why my brother liked to watch sports like cricket/football staying up late in the night but now I guess their is some sort of innate aggressiveness that needs an outlet even if it is albeit a little passive.
Countrywomen, they are not all bad ;) Good luck.
weblog,
I am glad you can see this :). Thanks for stopping by.
RGraf,
No worries, I know we are all newbies once and people need to make a more concerted effort to make everyone feel welcome. HubPages encourages everyone to use the forum, but some newbies leave pretty quickly when they are attacked. Most of those doing the attacking do it for humor and their kicks and really do not seem to have much better to do.
Countrywomen,
I never had thought about it this way before, but you have a good observation about men and their competitiveness. Maybe the forum is an extension of their competitive nature and it make they feel like they are winning with this behavior. Testerone can do some funny things for sure LOL.
SweetiePie- I have a younger brother whom I have observed since the day he was born. Their are certain things about boys I always find intriguing but at the same time I do admire their competitive spirit. I guess we need to understand why some one behaves the way that they do. I maybe not right on this one it is just one of my feelings about men and their behavior.
CW,
Nevertheless I think you are on to something and this would explain the competitive need to one up each other in the forums. I never had brothers and even some of the things my nephew does are very shocking to me. My niece is so much more rough and tumble than my sisters and I were because she spends so much time with her brother and his friend. Competitiveness can be a good thing though.
I agree with both of you. I know women who are so determined to be "equal" to the men that they are unpleasant to be around. You really could be on to something.
SweetiePie- I can give you one incident when he was just about 6 years and I was 8 we would have the pillow fight. He would always insist on being the person who took the last shot and I was always careful not to hit the pillow hard at him where it might hurt him. Competitiveness is a good thing when it is channeled in the positive direction. I guess it again depends since each individual may have different priorities and for some hub pages may be a top priority to score a point.
RGraf- I have met one of those kind of women at work and yes you are right it is tough to relate to them. I guess we are wired differently no wonder the book "men are from mars and women are from venus" was so successful.
I haven't been in the forums lately, guess because have been busy, so have gotten into the habit of reading hubs, commenting which is my way of staying in touch with the hub community. I stay away from nastiness, I am concious spiritually of how I contribute or not. ;)
As for the stereotyping. yeah, when I moved to the rural town I now live in, and most residents are pretty friendly, really down to earth folks; however I kept on meeting a woman at the library, coffee shop, etc., who incidentally I thought to myself, she must have been beautiful in her youth, as she has beautiful blue eyes, and a nice intelligent air about her... that is until she sneered at me because even if I am not Mexican, I am Latin. Yikes. I was speechless, as she caught me off guard, I was new in town, not used to this type of racism, as I come form a large city in NY where cultural diversity is the norm.
Good hub! Brought back memories. LOL!
Violet- That wasn't a good introduction to the new place. I hope you got over it. One of my friends (who is indian) got a job in Arkansas in a large meat packaging company. Not a single day any of his colleagues wished him or sat with him during lunch time. He felt very uncomfortable even in the place where he stayed with curious looks from others. He quickly applied for other jobs and moved to california within two months. Different places in US are in different eras. I never realized that until he told me about his experiences.
Maybe the best thing to do would be to ignore them? I've found that people like that tend to feed off others' hurt - if you try and not let it affect you and turn your back on them, they starve because you are literally cutting off their sustenance. Amd maybe for good measure, add fuel to the fire and pity them :) That really turns them off!!! They love to be feared not pitied!
It saddens me to hear of such acts. We've always had friends from various cultures and I've encouraged my children to do the same. We've moved to small town now where that is harder, but I'm determined to have my children not act like my parents or others I know do. Respect for others and their cultures/beliefs is something that many miss.
Shalini- To a certain extent one can ignore but beyond it is not humanly possible. When I hear about such experiences I feel so blessed to have such a charmed life so far.
Yes RGraf - respect is the key - and it is usually someone who doesn't love himself who bullies others - sad but true!
I agree CW - sometimes people overstep boundaries - it's easier to walk away in the early stages :)
Rgraf- You are doing the right thing about raising kids to be open to other and their beliefs. Unfortunately in those places mostly elderly people stay and they can't change at this age. The older one gets the tougher it is to change our attitudes. Those people may never have met anybody not belonging to their background hence anything not familiar brings a certain level of uneasiness.
Shalini- Yes you are right sometimes it helps to nip it in the bud.
CW, Shalini: Strangely I was not hurt, just felt very uncomfortable,- kind of getting a taste what racism feels like- fortunately, that was the only incident. I realize now, I would never move to certain parts of the country and be shunned, there is no reason for me put myself in an environment of ignorance.
RGraf: Its wonderful you are raising your children to have open minds- there is so much beauty in cultural diversity.
Respect for others is a lost virture. My husband loves to debate politics (I hate it). But when the other person begins to insult and call you stupid and such, he ends it. He like the debate but the respect has to be there for any different opinions. We have to have that respect and that is something SweetiePie pointed out so well and so have all the comments. That is why I'm so deteremined to teach my children and try to be an example.
Violet- Yes knowingly we should never put ourselves into such a situation unless we have some stronger reasons to do so.
RGraf- Debate is a good thing since it opens the communication process to send and receive new information hitherto unknown but the moment it becomes a game like I have to win this point (sort of an ego issue) then it ceases to be anymore informative to either of them. What pleasure lies in such a victory making others cry? I am glad you are teaching them when they are a young and open.
I once asked my father why for Driving a car their is a minimum age, for voting in elections their is a minimum age but for inculcating religious beliefs no minimum age (in fact the earlier the better). He told me that when they grow up they need to have an identity if they don't grow up with their back ground and identity others anyway may not accept them even their own back ground people may not accept them. I don't know how much each of us is conditioned to be what we are just to be able to fit into our back ground? And are we looked down upon(in our back ground) if we respect others and their beliefs?
In years of online activity, I have found almost without fail that no matter what the forum is, no matter what the topic, no matter who is involved, the conversation will eventually degenerate into something like, "Oh, yeah?" "Sez You!" "And So's Your Mutha!" I rarely, if ever participate in online forums for that reason. ;)
I never get involved in the forums but I think anyone engaging in it has to up for a sparring session, but I think if people can get fired up over someone else's thinking/words, then they are showing equal weakness by getting insultive, but if your beliefs are true to you, you shouldn't be worried about others taking that truth away otherwise it was never a conviction to begin with
i agree to everything that goldentoad said :D
I am not sure what I can say here, but I do agree and I am thinking of backing out of the forums. Some people are just tooooo prejudiced. That comment may get me into trouble..............
RGraf,
Yes I agree there are some women who can be competitive too.
Countrywomen,
I used to work with a few women like that in the past. They are hard to deal with them and I just stay out of their way. Their need for competitive drive is great, but I really am not going to chat with them.
VioletSun,
I really cannot stand prejudice or stereotypes either. This is not being overly sensitive as one hubber stated, this is just being a person with a heart and knowing right from wrong. People who indulge in prejudiced remarks live in an antiquated past that is slipping away, and as time goes by there is less and less of this mentality. There will always be a few prejudiced people and trolls in the world, but modern sensibilites have taught us that putting someone down because of their race, class, or religion is just plain wrong. Sorry she put you through that at the time, but it sounds like it was more her problem to start with.
The comments are as interesting a read as the hub! Well said, ALL!
It really looks like all the "salt" of the earth has finally decided they have had enough of the "pepper." Now all the pepper has is other pepper as company to interact with - when the salt withdraws from their unappealing company.
Besides quit wasting your energy on toxic people who are not ready to grow just yet, all it does is wear down your energy level. Interact with others who are willing to do right by you: be as respectful of your different ideas as you are of theirs. Wow! Do you think if more people behaved like that they might actually learn something valuable for themselves?!
Keep grinning - and tell the trolls to get back under the bridge - and STAY like the bad little monsters they are - no food treats until they learn to be more socialized! :)
Denny,
some very good points. I like your analogy about no more food treats for the trolls until they become more socialized.
I want to thank everyone who commented and I really do not have something to say to every comment, but thanks for sharing. I appreciate every one's comments.
Sweetiepie: It warms my heart that the younger generation such as yours are so much more embracing of diversity- society has progressed, slowly but surely, so that's a good thing.
I think it helps too living in California and being ethnically mixed as I am. I can appreciate all my different ancestors and I have always been fascinated with different cultures. Of course, I really do like the trend with how things are going, it is better to focus on the positive.
Yes, I noticed too. There are a few who spew hate and love to start fights.
These people are bullies and need to be brought in line. Thye spoil it for the rest of us.
It makes the forum and website look bad.
Hopefully it will stop if we ignore them or the powers that be, curb their bad behavior.:)
Denny Lyon,
You are right on it. Keep your faith in those who wish to push positive thought and energy. It is what must be done to grow spiritual healing throughout the planet. Humans unite for peace, harmony and happiness. Good for you SweetiePie. This hub is a PUSH in the right direction and has built momentum with every one's comments. I am proud to know you. me, poorQpine
StacieL,
I think your make some good points Stacie, would should ignore their behavior for the most part. When someone speaks down to me I will stand up for myself, but sometimes I just walk away because who wants to argue with a forum troll anyway. Surprisingly, one person saw this hub and wrote me regarding some comments he made and apologized, that made me quite impressed. I am glad some people were able to rethink their behavior.
poorQpine,
Thanks for bringing some great warm energy to this hub poorQpine. I think we all need to do to build each other up rather than tearing each other down.
SweetiePie, Great hub. It is good to know that people do not want to be a part of tearing others down! The short video with the little animal is cute. C.S. Alexis
I guess there are and will always be two sides to a coin. Though it means we have to take the good with the bad, what matters is how we react or respond, and in the process testing our character and true worth as a person. And we can always look at it this way - without the dark, we won't see the light :D
C.S. Alexis, I have a zero tolerance for bullies, and the ones on forums remind me of kids who teased me in high school. I truly believe people become cyper bullies because they never grew up and need an outlet for their frustrations. Yes the video is cute and makes point.
Cris A,
I just have to disagree with you here, I think my character shines through and through for having the courage of conviction to stand up to bullies. If you cannot see that, then maybe you should read the comment above I made to C.S. Alexis. Character is about standing up to the bullies and telling them we think they are rude, childish, and quite simply put, trolls.
But that's exactly what I meant, your reaction/response to the bad vibes is to shine and that's what counts. :D
I agree with Sweetiepie completely! I always give them a chance first, second and maybe even a third time, but when I have had enough and my boundaries have been invaded, I then tell them what I am going to do-as you would a child, because they are acting like one, and then the next step is to do what i stated that I would do.
I don't want to be considered one with the trolls, or worse, be a troll myself! LOL if I could just right my first comment...here goes. What I really meant (which I might have worded wrongly) is that there are two sides, the bad (with the trolls) and the good. One's reaction might be join the bad - ie, be a troll themselves, or be a supporrter, or be bitter and accept being trolled upon. And the good side, which is to stand up to trolls and shine - which is what you did and are doing. I apologize, if I have upset you in any way. Trust me, that's not what's intended. Hope this clear things up :D
Lady Guinevere,
This is a great analogy about telling online trolls what you are going to do as if they were children. You post put this so succinctly. If you want to act like children, we surely will treat you that way :).
CrisA,
I never thought you were a troll, I just felt you thought I was being overly sensitive about trolling. I see what you mean now and thanks for sharing.
What Is A Troll?
The term derives from "trolling", a style of fishing which involves trailing bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite. The troll posts a message, often in response to an honest question, that is intended to upset, disrupt or simply insult the group.
Usually, it will fail, as the troll rarely bothers to match the tone or style of the group, and usually its ignorance shows.
Why do trolls do it?
I believe that most trolls are sad people, living their lonely lives vicariously through those they see as strong and successful.
Disrupting a stable newsgroup gives the illusion of power, just as for a few, stalking a strong person allows them to think they are strong, too.
For trolls, any response is 'recognition'; they are unable to distinguish between irritation and admiration; their ego grows directly in proportion to the response, regardless of the form or content of that response.
Trolls, rather surprisingly, dispute this, claiming that it's a game or joke; this merely confirms the diagnosis; how sad do you have to be to find such mind-numbingly trivial timewasting to be funny?
Remember that trolls are cowards; they'll usually post just enough to get an argument going, then sit back and count the responses (Yes, that's what they do!).
Troll - Angler or Underbridge Dweller?
How can troll posts be recognised?No Imagination - Most are frighteningly obvious; sexist comments on nurses' groups, blasphemy on religious groups .. I kid you not. Pedantic in the Extreme - Many trolls' preparation is so thorough, that while they waste time, they appear so ludicrous from the start that they elicit sympathetic mail - the danger is that once the group takes sides, the damage is done. False Identity - Because they are cowards, trolls virtually never write over their own name, and often reveal their trolliness (and lack of imagination) in the chosen ID. As so many folk these days use false ID, this is not a strong indicator on its own! Crossposting - Any post that is crossposted to several groups should be viewed as suspicious, particularly if unrelated or of opposing perspective. Why would someone do that? Off-topic posting - Often genuine errors, but, if from an 'outsider' they deserve matter-of-fact response; if genuine, a brief apposite response is simply netiquette; if it's a troll post, you have denied it its reward. Repetition of a question or statement is either a troll - or a pedant; either way, treatment as a troll is effective. Missing The Point - Trolls rarely answer a direct question - they cannot, if asked to justify their twaddle - so they develop a fine line in missing the point. Thick or Sad - Trolls are usually sad, lonely folk, with few social skills; they rarely make what most people would consider intelligent conversation. However, they frequently have an obsession with their IQ and feel the need to tell everyone. This is so frequent, that it is diagnostic! Somewhere on the web there must be an Intelligence Test for Trolls - rigged to always say "above 150"http://www.flayme.com/troll/
I quickly identify the forum posters who irritate me-- trolls or not-- and ignore them. Period. I've wasted waaaay too much time online arguing with them, and there is nothing to be gained anyway. They lie just to get a rise out of you. I wouldn't waste my breath engaging in conversation with someone I know is a liar.
Lady Guinevere,
Wonderful summary and thanks for sharing!
Mortaine,
No one in this discussiong has ever argued with a troll. We are just talking about standing up for people that put us down. There is a difference. Just wanted to share this. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
Well, SweetiePie, I doubt that's entirely true-- I'm sure we've ALL argued with a troll in the past! I've argued with trolls when I was naive and thought people were essentially decent, and even today, I get caught once in a while by trolls before I realize what they are.
But I was just sharing how I handle the problem, in response to the great hub and all the great comment discussion.
Mortaine,
Let me just put it from my perspective, I do not argue with people on forums per sae. I state my side, but I usually keep it very calm and do not say half the things I am thinking. I am sure some people argue in forums from time to time, but I just never even saw the point of out and out arguments, especially the kind we have in the politics and religious forums even here. People are daily badgering and belittling each other, but I think they enjoy this name slinging, so to each his own I suppose.
I admire your approach and it is best to ignore people for the most part. When I wrote this hub I just felt the passion to do so because some one attacked me in the forum just because I said life is too short to worry about paying taxes. I pointed out Benjamin Franklin said there are two things we can count on in life, death and taxes. My friend has been having seizures for the last two years and all she has wanted more in the world is to be healthy enough on medication to stop having seizures so she can drive again.
A lady had just moved to California a few weeks back and was commented on how high car registration is in our state, and I just happened to comment that it is high, but at least she can drive and she be thankful for that. At this point she did not come back and add any more to the discussion and it had been left for six weeks, until some person came and made a personal attack upon me. He completely missed my point about life being too short to always focus on taxes, and he claimed I was not sentient person because the money at my disposal must not be my own, hence I did not care paying taxes. I could have retorted back to him and said that is so wrong and how dare you make a personal attack, but I just left it at that.
When I saw this trolling behavior continue I was concerned. He and a few others have done this to other people too, but I noticed that over the last few days they were tiring of his antics. I do see what you mean by ignoring them, which I finally did in his case, so that might be the best approach for many. Often times I just feel like speaking up any time I see verbal injustices. Having been teased as a child severely I liken trolling to this and see this an extension of child hood behavior. Thanks for your great comments.
I've noticed your forum postings, Sweetie Pie and the one thing that sticks out for me, is your politeness, positive attitude and willingness to help. I wish I had half of your qualities. Don't get discouraged. You're exactly right. Life is too short...
Oops. I must admit that sometimes I am a stupid fish and cannot resist biting. Must try to be good!
Yes. I am pretty sure I know who you mean. There is one particular forum poster who exemplifies the kinds of trolldom that irritate me most, and I've caught myself thinking "but-- but-- but!!!" It takes active willpower to resist rising to the bait. Mostly, I try to just walk away from the discussion at that point, because otherwise, I will drive myself into circles (even a tizzy, if you will). I, too, feel trollishness is the same as bullying, and it's why I think it should be combated. But it's also why I think these jerks target people who are vulnerable to this kind of verbal abuse. Which, again, is why I try to ignore it, get away, leave the discussion, so they won't have the satisfaction of getting me worked up.
rockingjoe,
Thanks for thinking I am a saint on the forum, but I will tell you I actually think quite a bit more about them I would never say of course. I have enjoyed your witty responses to several trolls as of recent, and your hub is a good jumping off point for them. Maybe they can all go throw shoes at each other for awhile, but only in my wildest dreams would that ever happen lol.
Sufidreamer,
Well you must do what is right for you of course. Thanks for stopping by and sharing.
Mortaine,
You are right, trolls are pretty astute and know their prey and always seem to pick the people who are most vulnerable. Leaving the discussion is a good tactic, I can see how this might be best. Although, I have to say with this one individual in particular it has bothered me a little he is still free to post when he has said things that are 120% worse than someone who got banned. There is one hubber who is my friend and yes he said something rude to one hubber, but I know the other person also said rude things to him at the beginning to start it. A few even ganged up on him and were doing the same things back, but the only one who got in trouble was him. Yes in my opinion he was asking for it because he kept walking into that hornets' nest, but double standards just are never pretty. However, it seems to be a fact of life and will not go away.
Mind you, one attempt at trolldom turned into a very interesting and rational discussion, so it is not always bad.
Sweetie Pie does have the right idea, though, and I shall remember to return to this Hub occasionally, as a reminder of good etiquette!
Denying the trolls of their food is the best way :) I was taught to stand up to bullies, but it is all too easy to become one.
Sufidreamer,
I am glad to hear some discussion with trolls turn the tide. All I can say is battles are fine as long as you pick and choose yours. If you are arguing with some yahoo that thinks Obama is the antichrist and Anne Coulter is our savior, then you probably should just walk away. However, there are a few rational trolls you can actually have discussion with I am sure.
Thanks, Sweetiepie. So you're saying that Anne Coulter is not our savior?
(I'm kidding:)
Hi Sweetiepie, Excellent points. I wouldn't expect to see much (or any) argument here -- trolls do not identify themselves as such, do they:-)?
What struck me was the idea that newcomers to HubPages might inadvertently lay themselves bare for troll attacks. I guess we are all big boys and girls. However, I would hate to see legitimate hubbers leave in disgust or frustration because their first interactions were negative. Overall, HP is such a warm and welcoming place. Maybe we should post a warning sign: We recommend you get your sea legs for at least a month before venturing into the forums section of HP. Post to politics and religion forums at your own risk.
I'm kidding, of course. But feeling protective today.
RJ -- I'm pretty sure I've seen Anne Coulter's posts on here under a male user name:-).
Rockingjoe,
Yes it is funny how so many really love Anne Coulter, which is hilarious in itself :).
Mighty Mom,
Thanks for your great comments. I hope no legitimate Hubbers would leave hubpages because of trolls, but a few stated they no longer participate in the forums, or only in a limited sense. Warnings are always good, but overall forums in general just are not some of our forte. Yes, Hubpages is a mild place overall, but I tend to be more protective of those who have been hurt than everyone on this site. There are a few people on here I would never apologize for or be protective of. However, this is not my website and I cannot say who should and who shoud not be banned from the forum, but there was one individual that it surprises me he can still post here. I also complained about the comments he made about me and I feel that in the least should have been taken down, but oh well, it is not my place to say. I just know if he had said that about certain people the comment would have been yanked right on the spot. However, I do choose to exercise my opinion about it here. For the most part I do stay out of some forums because I really do not care for the responses I get from time to time. Nothing wrong with those who enjoy this sort of thing, I guess I am just not a big forum user.
Great hub - sweetiepie - so many rational and fine points being made about rudeness on forums, cyberbullying, trolls, discrimination etc - I think walk away is a really good option, I don't go into the forums much simply because I enjoy trying to read as many hubs as I can in the time I have - and of course when they have lots of comments attributed to them then they take time to read also (and invariably almost as good as the original hub) - so it's all good.
But the the things that do rile me are when people are pig headed and stubborn and won't listen to another's opinion, when they are bullying and worse still when they are being discriminatory of others - cheers
Hi SweetiePie, I'm enjoying reading your hub and all the thoughts from everyone about trolls in the forums. LOL I confess when people start fighting in the forums, it makes me laugh and I think, "here we go again!" :-)
I don't participate much in forums be cause they seem to get off subject so quickly and turn aggressive. What's with that? Most of us get along well on the hubs, nice comments, or at least respectful disagreement with a few exceptions, but let them enter the forum and it's like they walk thru nasty gas or fickle fairy juice, wicked witch wash, something. ya know?
scary. LOL
acjor,
I think your approach of just focusing on the hubs is best. A few months ago I used to post to the forum quite frequently, but I have dropped off considerably because the arguments are way too aggressive. I think reading each others hubs and commenting on people that comment on our hubs is far more beneficial anyway. Part of me wonders if the trolls are afraid to focus more on hubs because this means they would have to back up their opinion with writing, which is probably a scary thought for people who are all talk and no show. I enjoy reading your hubs acjor and I am glad you have a positive attitude about all of this. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
Ripplemaker,
I really believe the forum would be a better place if more people followed your example. Your positive attitude is a good impact on many a hubber I believe. Thanks for stopping by :).
Marisuewrites,
I totally agree with the forums getting way off topic too quickly, and this almost seems to be relished by the more trolly types LOL. Yes it is funny how most of us get along in the comment sections of hubs, but trolls primarily like to rant in forums. There are a couple of hubs where trolls hang out too, but those are far and few between. On one of those hubs all the trolly ones agree with each other, but they sure pitch a fit if anyone comes along with a divergent opinion. I love you analogy about the forums, brilliant! Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
I HAD to find and reread this hub once again. I think once again I'll be vacationing from the forums for awhile. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to walk the earth.
Sorry, just venting after another forum horror show.
Joe- Enjoy your vacation as I am enjoying mine. I guess each of us has had different reasons to start this vacation. Btw it is snowing season almost everywhere which will help you to "cool down" quickly unless you go to a "hot"place like Hawaii/Florida..LOL
I ventured into the forums a few days ago and my comment on one was totally ignored as the others around me went off on some tangent that had NOTHING to do with what the original question asked. When I asked another question to get a better understanding of what one troll had said, they continued on the other non-issue topic and ignored me. The hostility they started exhibiting toward a particular hubber was shocking.
I don't think I'll be going back. I'm not one to enjoy confrontation.
rockinjoe,
I completely understand your frustration with the forum. Just yesterday I saw someone clearly goading another person and I was going to offer a more equitable stance, but I know that would just have been shot down by someone. I only post on the forum occasionally and I rarely get into it much there anymore. It is sad, but there are some real trolls of the forum for sure. Always feel free to share your frustrations, that is what this hub is for :).
countrywomen,
Hope you are okay up there with all the snow. It rained today here in Southern California and snowed up in the mountains. The weather has been colder than usual for this time of year. I hope you are enjoying your vacation :).
RGraf,
I think some of them like to argue so much they do not listen to any rational or sound advice. Many argue just to argue and their arguments are contradictory. The other day I looked at a city forum and this one was one of the most bitter I had ever seen.
I believe you are right. I've met so many people who just have to argue no matter what about. In fact one troll made a blanket comment about a group of people they did not like and were very insulting. Little known to them, I was included in that group. Where the insult came from I have no idea. I reread the comments and it was like the troll was trying to start a rant. Very discouraging. I enjoy spending time with my hub friends. I thank each one of you.
There is one hubber that wears a wig and pretends to be someone else on his hubs and in the forums, but I think he is just joking around. Problem was he started following me around all because he did not like one comment I made on his overly self-promotional hub. Instead of rationally presenting his side he first called me a Communist, and then deleted all the comments when others told him he was being overly promotional. Weeks later he resurrected on old forum discussion to call me a name again. He does that to many people on the forums and I figured out he is just getting his kicks off of it. I think some of the trolls are like that, they are not able to treat people like that in real life because of the reprecussions, so they come online and act out like children. I consider you a friend too.
SP- You know this happened a long time back but once after a big fight with my little brother (whom I love a lot too) I went and complained to my dad (who usually takes my side) saying that my brother is so short tempered. Then my father asked me what about you? I didn't get it immediately then it stuck me what he meant was since I was short tempered I found my brother short tempered. I guess name calling could be similar too when people expect others to exercise restraint when they themselves don't do so then that does surprise me too.
Btw was that "communist" after a john lenon song "imagine"? I am just wondering who could it be..hehe
This has been the worst snow storm in Seattle for the last 20 years and people over here are not used to snow like east coast folks. It is extremely difficult to drive anywhere and I wanted to finish my groceries before my India trip. I am still edgy about the flight schedule as even the airport staff are struggling to keep the runway clean. For tomorrow I will order a pizza and see how things go from their on. Otherwise my friend here has volunteered to get some groceries for me(I am so lucky to be surrounded by nice people it is such a blessing).
This time around the guy who called me communist is the character who wears a wig. Oh well, I just am not hanging out in the forums where he can pick on me anymore. Some people always want to be right about religion and politics, and sometimes even looks. Like for instance I think the guy who left the comment on my other hub was a troll and I would have just deleted his comment, but you kindly tried to talk to him so I left it. Honestly some people do just need to be called out on their trolling behavior because they ruin it for the rest of us, but I think you are kind to try and deal with them.
I hope everything goes well leading up to your trip and good luck with that. It is nice you have good neighbors looking out for you up there in the Seattle area.
There's about 5 people on the forums at the moment who are pretty nasty types of trolls.
They are obviously well educated, and know how to pick something out of a remark you have made, twist it around, and attack you with it.
The more you try to reason with them, or discuss an issue, the worse they get.
In my experience, the best way to treat them is to ignore them. Cut off the "oxygen" that they receive from your responses.
Don't try to reason, discuss, or argue with them. Just make a simple statement that you will not be responding to any further comments of theirs.
And stick to it.
Sometimes this will result in a higher level of abuse or attacks against you. That's fine. Keep ignoring them. Because if you reply, you're forever at a disadvantage.
Be strong. when you decide you are not going to communicate with them, don't.
No matter how tempted you are, or how outrageous their comments become.
Very well said Eric, maybe you should write a hub on this topic.
SP- Yes it is a blessing to have nice neighbors and people who care for you. I have always been lucky or I guess their is something about me that makes guys very nice to me(anyway I am not complaining)...LOL
Eric- That's a good way. But now you have got me curios about who those 5 guys are? I haven't felt that much negativity so far but then I haven't been here that long too(not that I want to be at the receiving end to know about it). Yes as SP says it would be a great hub idea.
Countrywomen,
You are a kind person so people are drawn to you, and I can see why given your complete tolerance of everyone on hubpages. I am glad you have neighbors looking out for you.
About the five guys I think Eric means they are more jokesters with too much time on their hands, or that is what I am getting from their behavior anyway. I am not sure who they all are, but we can usually spot them :).
Eric's advice is right on! Trolls are like little monsters who feed on energy, the more you give it to them, the bigger they get.
Thank you Sweetie! I agree with you. When you have pages upon pages of comments by these infantile hubbers, it is impossible to find and read the comments that really matter on a topic. I test these communities out when I first come to them, as I did with Hub Pages. I found HP to be one of the worst, though there was one far worse about 4 years ago. I haven't returned to that one in ages.
I thought forums here would be moderated since there is a "scoring" system (WILD LAUGH regarding scoring)... don't get me started on scoring ;-) However, the moderating is as much a joke as the scoring. It doesn't exist as far as I can see.
In this situation we muist, as has been said, contain our conversations to our Hubs where we ourselves can moderate. Then those of us who appreciate adulthood and responsibility in a community can interact without wasting our time. Agreed?
Hub is very aptly put, SP, thanks for it! And I must say all the follow-up comments made for a doubly interesting read!
Eric's advice is the one I identify most with. Ignoring attacks is what works for me (not that I've ever posted in the forums here, mostly because I took a gander at a couple of them and thought, "oy, how is this the same place as HubPages?!"), and to be honest I tend to extract a bit of an insane satisfaction when I am ignoring any given attack, only to see how the face of my counterpart gets redder and redder by the minute as if they're about to explode! *grin* I think it's like Eric said, when you don't raise up the the bait, it's like the offenders are cut off from their basic oxygen: your comebacks.
Ever heard of that old saying, "if one's not of a mind, two don't get into a fight"? :-)
Violet Sun,
It is good advice for sure.
recraig2,
In general I think the hubpages forum is mild compared to some of the city forums, craigslist, and myspace. However, I am not a forum fan in general and I agree with what you are saying. I just prefer not to have arguments with people in the forums anymore, which means I have to censor my thoughts from time to time. Honestly I just find it better not to get into arguments that are not going anywhere anymore. You are right, your own hubs are a better place to have thoughtful discussion because at least there you can delete the trolls :).
Elena,
I really like Eric's advice too. He has quite a bit of website building experience, so I can see how he is well versed on these issues.
Also, I think your approach is good because this way you will never waste useless energy getting in an argument.
Eric's advice is well founded and makes 100% sense. If the bully is walking down the street towards you, the best thing is to walk the other way to avoid a possible confrontation. This is why being the first poster on a topic (or worse, asking a question) is to be avoided, as it opens the troll gates and lets them loose. I unfortunately, will not stand around and take a punch to the head. I realize it's a stupid fight, but I am getting better....except for last night. I really let that sucker have it:)
Rockingjoe,
I have told a few trolls what I thought too. Lately I am just avoiding the forum because it gives me too many headaches, at least certain topics :).
countrywomen 3 years ago
SP- WOW!! You said it. I feel bad when people typecast and tend to even justify it. When all it takes is a little gentle prodding to ask questions to clarify or research books/online for further information. But NO we want answers and we want it NOW without any efforts on our part. Great hub and you certainly stuck a chord with me.